Legislature(2007 - 2008)HOUSE FINANCE 519

04/01/2008 01:30 PM House FINANCE


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ HB 353 PUBLIC LIBRARY INTERNET FILTERS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ SB 119 SCHOOL LIBRARY GRANTS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ SB 158 SHIRLEY DEMIENTIEFF MEMORIAL BRIDGE TELECONFERENCED
Moved Out of Committee
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
HOUSE BILL NO. 353                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     An Act relating to the blocking of certain Internet                                                                        
     sites at public libraries and to library assistance                                                                        
     grants.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JIM POUND,  STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE WES KELLER,  described the                                                                    
bill as requiring public libraries  to protect children from                                                                    
indecent  material, which  is defined  in existing  statute.                                                                    
The bill  is consistent  with the Child  Internet Protection                                                                    
Act,  enforced by  the Federal  Communications  Act, and  is                                                                    
tied  into  the  E-rate  discount  on  access  to  broadband                                                                    
internet for libraries that conform  to the Child Protection                                                                    
Act.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Pound  said 40% of libraries  in Alaska, or 89,  have no                                                                    
filters  on  their  internets.   He  said  the  filters  are                                                                    
inexpensive, effective, and  readily available. Libraries do                                                                    
not carry  pornographic magazines or books.  The legislation                                                                    
would allow a librarian to  disable the filter for an adult,                                                                    
if requested for  legitimate sites, and to take  care of the                                                                    
problems  caused  by  filtering  programs  over-reacting  to                                                                    
certain words.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:04:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara queried the  cost of installment and up-                                                                    
keep of the equipment needed.  Mr. Pound answered that it is                                                                    
primarily software that can be downloaded.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Joule referenced the  fiscal note, which says                                                                    
individual  libraries would  incur costs  ranging from  $100                                                                    
for  small libraries  to  $20,000 for  the  larger ones.  He                                                                    
asked for  an explanation  for the difference  between those                                                                    
numbers  and what  Mr. Pound  was saying.  Mr. Pound  listed                                                                    
programs, including  NetNanny, which  cost $60-100  per year                                                                    
for internet  security, and WebWatcher. Norton  AntiVirus is                                                                    
a free add-on.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  recollected hearing about the  issue of                                                                    
pornography on  public computers before, and  wondered about                                                                    
other state or municipal laws connected with the issue.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  referred to stack of  correspondence he                                                                    
had received  from people concerned  about the bill.  One is                                                                    
connected  to federal  E-rate funding.  Another is  from the                                                                    
director  of Juneau  Public Libraries,  which says  that the                                                                    
costs for installing institutional  software is much higher.                                                                    
Juneau Libraries, which has a  network system, would have to                                                                    
pay at least $1600 the first  year and $1800 after the first                                                                    
year. Higher cost systems are up to $10,000.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Pound understood that E-rate  would save libraries about                                                                    
$6,000 per year  on broadband internet access,  but they are                                                                    
not eligible without blocking software.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:09:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara asked if NetNanny  could be installed on                                                                    
a network  system. Mr. Pound  thought it could  be installed                                                                    
on a network or on individual computers.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Joule wondered how  large the problem is. Mr.                                                                    
Pound replied that young people  are using library computers                                                                    
more often.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer thought the school  districts already had the                                                                    
filtering system. Mr. Pound replied  that they did. He added                                                                    
that the University has an exemption.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer OPENED PUBLIC TESTIMONY.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:11:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KIM ROTH,  LIBRARIAN, TOK  COMMUNITY LIBRARY  (testified via                                                                    
teleconference), testified in opposition  to HB 353. Tok has                                                                    
about 1350 people and only  two public access computers, one                                                                    
of them at the Tok  Public Library, an all-volunteer library                                                                    
since  1955.  She pointed  out  that  the bill  has  serious                                                                    
implications   for   very   small   libraries.   The   first                                                                    
implication is  cost. Tok Public  Library operates  on $7500                                                                    
per  year. It  would cost  them  around $1000  to get  their                                                                    
computer in compliance and around  $1000 per year after, not                                                                    
including maintenance  and upkeep.  That would be  a serious                                                                    
financial hardship. At present there  is not enough money to                                                                    
pay for the heating bill.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Roth  questioned the need  for the program.  She worried                                                                    
about the  many volunteers  being put  into the  position of                                                                    
being  felons  or  legally  liable  because  of  inadvertent                                                                    
access  on the  computer. She  said there  has never  been a                                                                    
problem.  She described  an incident  of her  daughter being                                                                    
unable  to access  information about  the Civil  War on  her                                                                    
school computer  because the filters listed  the information                                                                    
as too graphic.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Roth did  not think the Legislation  was appropriate for                                                                    
small libraries.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:20:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JAMES  HUESMANN, DEAN  OF LIBRARIES,  UNIVERSITY OF  ALASKA,                                                                    
FAIRBANKS  (testified  via   teleconference),  testified  in                                                                    
opposition  of HB  353. He  pointed  out there  had been  no                                                                    
analysis  of  public  libraries that  do  no  have  internet                                                                    
filters  in  conjunction  with  their  overall  budgets.  He                                                                    
thought  very  small  libraries  would  be  most  negatively                                                                    
affected  by  the  bill.  He  said  filters  are  moderately                                                                    
affective against written text but  still very bad at photos                                                                    
and video, which are more the problem with pornography.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Huesmann  explained   that  institutional   costs  for                                                                    
filtering software  are dramatically higher  than individual                                                                    
costs.  More and  more of  the library's  resources are  on-                                                                    
line.  More  government services,  such  as  filing for  the                                                                    
Permanent Fund  Dividend, are on the  internet. Closing that                                                                    
down  could  be  a  significant problem.  As  a  parent,  he                                                                    
worries  more about  what his  children  do at  home on  the                                                                    
internet  than what  they  do at  the  public library  where                                                                    
there is supervision.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:22:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara   asked  for  more   information  about                                                                    
installation costs. Mr. Huesmann  responded that part of the                                                                    
problem is  that most of  the computers in  Alaska libraries                                                                    
have been  purchased by the  Bill Gates Foundation.  Many of                                                                    
those have  security software already  built into  them that                                                                    
make it far more difficult  to install new software. Even on                                                                    
individual systems, the cost is  higher. On network systems,                                                                    
a network technician  is needed to put in  the software, and                                                                    
there  are more  complex concerns.  He  told a  story of  an                                                                    
entire library system  being shut down for  days because the                                                                    
name  of  the  library  happened  to  include  a  word  that                                                                    
prompted  the filtering  system  to prevent  access to  even                                                                    
their own home page.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:24:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HELEN HILL,  DIRECTOR, HOMER  PUBLIC LIBRARY  (testified via                                                                    
teleconference),  spoke  in  opposition  to  HB  353.  Homer                                                                    
Public library  does not use  filtering software  for public                                                                    
access computers,  but they have  an internet  safety policy                                                                    
and internet use  agreement to which all  patrons must agree                                                                    
in  order to  log  on.  The decision  to  not  filter was  a                                                                    
community  decision. All  computers are  in view  of library                                                                    
staff.  She thought  library  personnel  are more  effective                                                                    
than software; Homer chose to  spend limited funds on people                                                                    
rather than equipment to keep  the library safe. The library                                                                    
does not have  the resource to enable  and disable computers                                                                    
many  times each  day.  The library  is  in compliance  with                                                                    
Children's Internet Protection Act  (CIPA) because they only                                                                    
request  a telecommunications  discount  through the  E-rate                                                                    
program and not an internet  discount. She described the use                                                                    
of grants and municipal funds.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:27:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara asked  about the  library's ability  to                                                                    
use free software. Ms. Hill  said the costs would be higher,                                                                    
and it  becomes a lot  more complicated on a  network system                                                                    
to  disable and  enable.  Representative  Gara wondered  why                                                                    
filters  would  have to  be  turned  on  and off.  Ms.  Hill                                                                    
explained  that the  law requires  that the  library disable                                                                    
the filter  for anyone age 17  or over who asks.  After that                                                                    
person is finished with the  computer, staff has to turn the                                                                    
filter back on.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:29:35 PM          AT EASE                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:30:07 PM          RECONVENE                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
JENNIE  GRIMWOOD,  CORDOVA (testified  via  teleconference),                                                                    
spoke in  support of the  bill. The local library  is highly                                                                    
used without adequate supervision. She  related a story of a                                                                    
pornographic photograph  placed on the desktop  of a library                                                                    
computer.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:32:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KATHY    COTTON,     DELTA    JUNCTION     (testified    via                                                                    
teleconference),  spoke  in   support  of  the  legislation.                                                                    
People are constantly  rotating on and off  the very popular                                                                    
computers,  making them  hard to  monitor.  She thought  the                                                                    
block would  prevent the necessity  of someone  looking over                                                                    
her shoulder while on the internet.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:34:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DEBBIE JOSLIN, PRESIDENT, EAGLE  FORUM ALASKA (testified via                                                                    
teleconference), spoke  in support  of the  legislation with                                                                    
an Amendment to  restore the original language  of the bill.                                                                    
She  has  concerns  about pornography.  She  does  not  want                                                                    
librarians  looking over  her shoulder.  She does  not trust                                                                    
librarians  to  monitor  the   computers,  as  the  American                                                                    
Library Association is on  record saying pornography filters                                                                    
are an  infringement of First Amendment  rights. She thought                                                                    
the cost was worth protecting children.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:38:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JIM   MINNERY,   ALASKA   FAMILY  COUNCIL   (testified   via                                                                    
teleconference), spoke  in support of the  bill. He reported                                                                    
that sixty percent of the  libraries in the state, including                                                                    
the  tiny ones,  are currently  using internet  filters. The                                                                    
federal law  did not put  the libraries out of  business and                                                                    
he did  not think  a state law  would either.  The remaining                                                                    
40% of Alaskan libraries that  choose not to use filters are                                                                    
forfeiting  significant federal  funds that  they could  use                                                                    
through E-rate.  He spoke  of a  Fairbanks library  that was                                                                    
saving $6,000 per year by using filters.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Minnery  spoke to whether  there was a  problem. Supreme                                                                    
Court  said that  it was  discovered  that minors  regularly                                                                    
searched the internet for pornography  and exposed others by                                                                    
leaving pornography displayed on  monitors. He did not think                                                                    
it was  accurate for  librarians to  say that  it is  not an                                                                    
issue. He  referred to web marketing  strategies that target                                                                    
children by misspelling of domain  names to lure children to                                                                    
sites.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:45:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Stoltze related a story.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Minnery asserted that internet  filters are not the same                                                                    
as  librarians  monitoring  the computers.  He  thought  the                                                                    
amendment  seriously  weakened the  bill.  He  spoke to  the                                                                    
American   Librarian   Association    not   using   age   to                                                                    
discriminate what materials can be used in a library.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:47:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PATRICIA  LINVILLE,  LIBRARIAN,   SEWARD  COMMUNITY  LIBRARY                                                                    
(testified via  teleconference), spoke in opposition  to the                                                                    
legislation. She thought the law  would be redundant because                                                                    
of federal  law, and  that filtering  should be  a community                                                                    
issue. The  bill would  deny money  to libraries  that dot                                                                      
filter,  which  could  mean  the   entire  budget  of  small                                                                    
libraries. In  Seward the youth  computers are close  to the                                                                    
front desk and separate from the adult computers.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:49:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DOLORIS  STURTZ, ANCHORAGE  (testified via  teleconference),                                                                    
spoke in  support of the  bill. She would like  the original                                                                    
language of the  bill restored. Pornography is  a big issue.                                                                    
She  wanted to  protect  children from  the  mental harm  of                                                                    
viewing pornography.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:52:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GREG SCHMIDT,  BOARD, ALASKA  FAMILY COUNCIL  (testified via                                                                    
teleconference),  spoke  in  support  of  the  bill  in  its                                                                    
original  wording.  He  reminded   the  Legislature  of  the                                                                    
Constitution, which supports what is  good for the people as                                                                    
a whole. He did not  want the government to support exposing                                                                    
children to harm.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Roth  reported that  most libraries  have a  use policy.                                                                    
The Tok Community Library requires  young children to have a                                                                    
parent present  to use a  computer. She described  the extra                                                                    
work  libraries have  to  do to  use  E-rate. The  community                                                                    
decided to  monitor the  children in  order to  get internet                                                                    
access.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:56:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SHAWN TELL-NICKOLSON  (testified via  teleconference), spoke                                                                    
in support  of the  bill. She worried  about what  her child                                                                    
would view in a public library.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
PUBLIC TESTIMONY CLOSED.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
AT EASE:       2:58:48 PM                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
RECONVENE:          3:00:43 PM                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Joule referenced  the zero  fiscal note  and                                                                    
disagreed  that there  would be  no fiscal  impact. Co-Chair                                                                    
Meyer stated that  with the amended version,  there would be                                                                    
no  expense. The  original bill  would require  libraries to                                                                    
buy the filters, but the amended bill requires monitoring.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:02:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  pointed out that if  the University was                                                                    
included in the bill, there would be fiscal costs.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kelly MOVED Amendment  #1, to return the bill                                                                    
to  the  original  version, 25-LS1356\E.  Co-Chair  Chenault                                                                    
OBJECTED to hear discussion.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kelly  believed that the changes  made to the                                                                    
bill took the bill in the  wrong direction. He felt that the                                                                    
root  bill attempts  to protect  children  from exposure  to                                                                    
pornography, which  can damage them.  It should not  be easy                                                                    
to view  pornography in  public libraries.  He did  not know                                                                    
about exempting the University.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kelly   WITHDREW  the Amendment.  There being                                                                    
NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly  MOVED  to   return  to  the  original                                                                    
version   of  HB   353.  Co-Chair   Chenault  OBJECTED   for                                                                    
discussion.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara thought there  could be changes that are                                                                    
not clear.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:06:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Pound  pointed out  that the changes  made in  the State                                                                    
Affairs   Committee,   version   K,  primarily   added   "or                                                                    
monitoring," in  the title and on  page 1, line 11  and page                                                                    
2, line 2, monitoring systems;  the longer definition was to                                                                    
exempt  the University.  Representative Gara  did not  think                                                                    
that the  definition would exempt the  University. Mr. Pound                                                                    
explained  that  the  attorneys said  it  would  exempt  the                                                                    
University from the bill.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:08:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  did not  understand how  the definition                                                                    
would exempt the University. Mr. Pound did not know.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Chenault  asked if the libraries  at the University                                                                    
system  were open  to the  public. Mr.  Pound answered  that                                                                    
some  of them  are. He  reiterated that  Legal had  said the                                                                    
University was exempted by the language.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kelly suggested that  the original version be                                                                    
adopted  and then  the  bill  be held  to  determine if  the                                                                    
language should be amended.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:11:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Chenault  WITHDREW his  OBJECTION.  Representative                                                                    
Gara OBJECTED.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara was surprised  to hear that the language                                                                    
dealt  with the  University. The  part removed  is regarding                                                                    
the  library's  decision to  monitor  instead  of using  the                                                                    
software. He  did not know  if it was expensive  to install.                                                                    
He  just did  not know  enough.  He thought  that the  extra                                                                    
sentence  allowed  the  smaller   libraries  to  keep  their                                                                    
computers going.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  understood that  the intent  was to  get the                                                                    
original  bill  before  the Committee.  Representative  Gara                                                                    
thought  that   the  dispute  was  only   the  sentence.  It                                                                    
addresses the cost issues of the small libraries.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  pointed out that  the University is  under a                                                                    
different subsection of the law.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:14:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
A roll  call vote was taken  on the motion to  return to the                                                                    
original version of HB 353.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Hawker, Kelly,  Stoltze, Thomas,  Crawford, Meyer,                                                                    
Chenault                                                                                                                        
OPPOSED: Gara                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Absent from the vote: Joule, Nelson, Harris                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION PASSED (7-1).                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:15:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Chenault  noted  the  bill  would  restrict  state                                                                    
grants to  libraries that refused to  implement. The Sponsor                                                                    
statement also  referred to local grant  money to libraries.                                                                    
He wondered if there had been a change.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
HB  353  was  HEARD  and   HELD  in  Committee  for  further                                                                    
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                

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